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Science vs God
Here is a dailogue debate between a student and his teacher on the issue of Science vs God. This is a true story:
"Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"
"Yes sir," the student says.
"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."
"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."
"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."
"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."
The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment, "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cu re him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"
"Yes sir, I would."
"So you're good!"
"I wouldn't say that."
"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."
The student does not answer, so the professor continues.
"He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmm m? Can you answer that one?"
The student remains silent.
"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. "Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"
"Er...yes," the student says.
"Is Satan good?"
The student doesn't hesitate on this one, "No."
"Then where does Satan come from?"
The student falters, "From God."
"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?"
"Yes, sir."
"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"
"Yes."
"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."
Again, the student has no answer.
"Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"
The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."
"So who created them?" The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question, "Who created them?"
There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.
"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"
The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."
The old man stops pacing, "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"
"No sir. I've never seen Him."
"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"
"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"Yet you still believe in him?"
"Yes."
"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"
"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."
"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own."Professor, is there such thing as heat?"
"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."
"And is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No sir, there isn't."
The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet.
The student begins to explain... "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."
"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."
Silence across the room . A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.
"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"
"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?"
"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?"
The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"
"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."
The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time, "Flawed? Can you explain how?"
"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad god. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."
"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it. Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?"
"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do."
"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"
The professor begins to shake his head , still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.
"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean." The student looks around the room, "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?"
The class breaks out into laughter.
"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"
Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers, "I guess you'll have to take them on faith."
"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues, "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"
Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."
To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
The student was Albert Einstein!
LOL
I agreee with you Karen.
When it comes to religions, the argument can go on and on and on and on.
I am so glad that you posted this Businessman. Albert Einstein is one of my great heroes of science. I'm glad you know his early years, now he too, went through a metamorphosis like Sir Isaac Newton. Please explain what happen to Albert Einstein in his final years as he too, tried and failed to prove that there is such a thing as a god.
"Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart."
My question is, if God is all mighty and powerful, and the creator of all things, why does he not create everyone to believe in him? Why are there people who are absent of God's love, and yet those people will be punished for God's lack of parity?
My question is, if God is all mighty and powerful, and the creator of all things, why does he not create everyone to believe in him?Quote:
Those that are called by God will be saved. This is called Predestination and God's Election for His Remnant. No man can come to God on his own but only by His grace draws them unto salvation. The bible says in :
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
In other words, when we compare these 2 verses... God would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. "Truth" here is reffering to Jesus Christ. God is soveriegn over free-will. He could take it away from you if he likes. Read the story of Jonah found under the Old Testament.
Why are there people who are absent of God's love, and yet those people will be punished for God's lack of parity?[/qoute]
God's love is not the same as worldly love. People have never heard of the Gospel before. God uses the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. It's our duty to take the Gospel to the world and hopefully God will saved them. We have already established the fact according to the authority of scriptures that God would want all men to be saved. Therefore, we dont know who is the Remnant ( The elect). But the elect contains both Jews and Gentiles.
However, if they choose to not believe the Gospel at all then there is no salvation for them. The love of God and the righteousness of God is revealed through the Gospel - Romans 1:17. They choose what they want and they'll end up bearing their own sins and inequities. This however, does not exclude that if God calls this individual to salvation, this individual is irrestitable by Hs grace. In other words, if God calls you... You will never lose your salvation. You might be bad at times and stunble, but he will pick you up etc... If God will, people will see his love. His love was the complete expression on the cross clearly reveald through the person of Jesus Christ. God's love has ALREADY BEEN REVEALED to us!!! It's just that people dont understand yet becuase God has to open their eyes to see spiritual truth. They dont have spiritual eyes to see and they dont have spiritual insights. they look but they dont see. They hear and not understand. Only God could gives us truths and understandings when we come to acknowledge Christ as Savoir. So realy, God is the one that is doing all the works. We're just like final result out of it.
Those that are called by God will be saved. This is called Predestination and God's Election for His Remnant. No man can come to God on his own but only by His grace draws them unto salvation.
Those that are called by God will be saved, and what happens to those who disbelieve, not to exclude that everyone is God's child? God is the creator as so claimed, yet he disputes the infringed souls he would have "created". Salvation could only be achieved by the grace of one, yet if one, a creation of God, refutes, he is still the result of God's depravity. How could you brace God's moral righteousness if evil is the result of his?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I, for one, can say I am the way to the truth, too.
In other words, when we compare these 2 verses... God would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. "Truth" here is reffering to Jesus Christ. God is soveriegn over free-will. He could take it away from you if he likes. Read the story of Jonah found under the Old Testament.
If the truth is only Jesus Christ, and God would take one's free-will for disbelieving, God is forth biased. Isn’t there a part in the literature that disputes prejudicism? In today’s modern society, vast of the population, including Christians, promotes social and cultural diversity, yet one, from the Christian perspective, will be fated to hell if he disbelieves God? Now is that not hypocrisy?
God's love is not the same as worldly love. People have never heard of the Gospel before. God uses the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. It's our duty to take the Gospel to the world and hopefully God will saved them. We have already established the fact according to the authority of scriptures that God would want all men to be saved. Therefore, we dont know who is the Remnant ( The elect). But the elect contains both Jews and Gentiles. However, if they choose to not believe the Gospel at all then there is no salvation for them. The love of God and the righteousness of God is revealed through the Gospel - Romans 1:17. They choose what they want and they'll end up bearing their own sins and inequities. This however, does not exclude that if God calls this individual to salvation, this individual is irrestitable by Hs grace. In other words, if God calls you... You will never lose your salvation. You might be bad at times and stunble, but he will pick you up etc... If God will, people will see his love. His love was the complete expression on the cross clearly reveald through the person of Jesus Christ. God's love has ALREADY BEEN REVEALED to us!!! It's just that people dont understand yet becuase God has to open their eyes to see spiritual truth. They dont have spiritual eyes to see and they dont have spiritual insights. they look but they dont see. They hear and not understand. Only God could gives us truths and understandings when we come to acknowledge Christ as Savoir. So realy, God is the one that is doing all the works. We're just like final result out of it.
God’s love is not like worldly love because he discriminates. Those of his creation who are made blinded to his righteousness will not find the truth, the love in God, because they are set to that fate. If God is the creator, where is his sovereignty over equality on this creation Humanity?
You stated that “God is the one doing all the work, that we are just final result out of it. God ’s love has been revealed, but those who do not believe have not understood, and God has to open them to see the spiritual truth.” To begin, God failed to bring similitude in his creation, then he failed to amend the predicament he created. So those who do not believe are the result to God’s failure. Those who disbelieve will go to Hell because God failed to open their insight on the truth. This is what you call holy righteous?
i gotta say, very well written.
clever how u phrased this thread "Science vs God" when in truth it's always been god vs Science. Science never once had ever tried to disprove any religion. but religions such as christianity try so hard to demonize science. you used albert einstein as support for ur god cliams, but even einstein, a genius among men, couldn't prove that god existed. so if einstein couldn't what makes you think you have the caliber to? this is off subject but what field of study did u study? i ask because i deciding whether it's worth debating with you or not.
just to let you know i'm not impressed by ur tactics. you're gonna need a different tactic with me.
clever how u phrased this thread "Science vs God" when in truth it's always been god vs Science.
Im not against science. I dont know of any Christians that is against science. However, I know people that are against evolution becuase its not part of science. LOL! In fact, we can drawn evidence for God from science. Although we may not empirically prove his existence, we can draw pluasible conclusions from it. The difference between you and me is that i take 1 step further. I have faith.
Science never once had ever tried to disprove any religion. but religions such as christianity try so hard to demonize science.
I agree. Science doesnt try to prove nor disprove religion. But i disagree when you say Christianity try so hard to demonite science. In fact, most if not all branches of science were started by people who believes in God. So we as Christian should not be intimidate by science. But the Bible says that we should be aware of false science.
you used albert einstein as support for ur god cliams, but even einstein, a genius among men, couldn't prove that god existed. so if einstein couldn't what makes you think you have the caliber to?
First of all, Einstein doesnt believe in a personal God as Newton. You see, Newton believes in a personal God, a God that intervene in human affairs. Einstein believes that the laws of nature pointing to an Infinite mind, to him represented the true nature of God. We both live in the present so obviously we have the same sciences. The difference is our starling point and how we interpret these evidences that fits into our presuppositional worldviews. The bible gives us the correct view of history, not in terms of evolutionary glasses.
is off subject but what field of study did u study? i ask because i deciding whether it's worth debating with you or not. just to let you know i'm not impressed by ur tactics. you're gonna need a different tactic with me.
Biology, Molecular Biology and Genetics.
What is your position? Are you an atheist? What evidence do you have that God does not exists? Good luck, im looking forward to this debate.
I'll start by letting you know i'm a Chemistry/Business student. Glad to know that i'm debating with someone who is educated. Just curious how far are you in ur studies? I ask because i want to know how credible u are.
You ask of my position? simply put i'm a skeptic/rationalist.
I can not prove/disprove ur god as much as i can not prove/disprove Allah, Zeus, Kronus,the boogeyman, ... i think you get the point. also by the way before i go on, just refute the main point that i'm making; if i were to refute every sentence you make i'd rather write a book.
you say ur not against science but you believe "everything" was created by a super natural being, but you probably would like to call it an intelligent being; either way it's still super natural. that isn't science. which is the same reason why creation/intelligent design are not in any scientific book. You even said so ur self that you can't empirically prove ur god's existence; so this debate is already over; because anything outside of empirical is imaginary. didn't think it would end this fast.


I'll read this when I'm about to go to sleep.
Looks to me like a bed time story.